my final bearshaman-build...

...yeah here it is, works very well

http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=29&tpl=2424-03,2423-05,2431-05,2422-05,2417-13,2400-15,2402-13,2403-14,2412-15,2401-15,2435-15,2405-12,2416-15,2419-13,2447-11,2413-11,2415-11,4206-25,4214-23,4216-25,4202-23,4208-22

greetings from the dancing "beershaman" Ragnarson

All I see is a ranger's build. Your BS is in "Legends" (guild) anyway. At least he was a few days ago.

...ahhhh, thx, i edit it again

I must say that this build has many positive aspects. Balance of nature, blood healing, rune of aggression, manifestation healing, rune of grounding and nature's wrath.

What I dont understand, is the waste of 16 points. Priests' invulnerability in the general tree provide 3%, and the grizzled hide provides a very small amount as well. What was the purpose of investing those points? If its survival, then you got it all wrong.

Priests' survival lies in hate modification. -hate gear and -hate feats. I've been testing the Vindicator lately, and it was never bugged when I used it. No tank had invulnerability problems because of it. No tank lost his defensive stance, even when he was extremely far from me. Grace is a great option as well. Sooth the Soul and Wrath of the Gods for AoE -50% hate against you.

The Ursine Onslaught provides an extremely small DPS addition because that combo has very low damage and reuse time of 25 seconds. The combo itself takes about 4-5 seconds to perform. The result is 5 feat points that are totally wasted. Why not take those points to the exemplar feat from the general tree? +14 damage per hit, no matter which combo is being used.

Empowered renewal is one of the worst choices a BS can choose from. It requires the right timing to be used right, or else it goes to waste. As a result, the healing will be inactive some of the time, while you're there as a healer. You're healing less just for a minor DPS addition. It is minor, because this buff has a decent reuse time. When timed right, its not used when the reuse time ends. If you're a healer, you're supposed to heal, right?

Spirit walker takes 3 points, and barely buffs the totems.

Claws of life will also help your friends get an additional small healing for free once you're attacking, and will get you +90 natural healing, if I recall. Its great for group and solo, and is much better than the unfeated claws.

The guiding spirit and the all encompassing spirits are a very wierd choice. On one hand, you can get a lot of healing by attacking and putting the nature's wrath to good use. On the other hand, you invest 3 points to shorten the reuse time from 3.5 sec, which is extremely short, to almost no reuse time. The tanks are the ones who're taking the damage. If its other groups, they have their own healers. There's no reason in the world to spam the blood flow. Stacking nature's wrath will heal the ones who're taking the damage, which actually makes sense.

Wild Energy is useless once you have Ether Discharge. There wont be mana problems when it comes to solo. In extreme cases there might be a need for a potion, but its so cheap, so I guess no one cares.

Rune of Slaughter - What reason did you have to skip one of the best raid/group feats possible? If you're attacking, the rune will easily stack to -10% to the mob's physical invulnerabilities. You actually buff the entire DPS of the whole group. The ones who're using physical damage. That includes the tanks, who could use that help. That, coupled with your rune of aggression, will make your damage so good, but you wont get the credit for it when it comes to DPS charts. On the other hands, your real damage will be great. It might be through others, but some people only care about their personal glory. I wasnt refering to you.

If you want great soloing ability, while still having as much group support as possible, you can consider this build:
http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=29&tpl=2431-05,2422-05,2400-15,2403-15,2407-15,2409-15,2412-15,2446-15,2435-15,2416-15,2419-13,2447-11,2413-11,2415-11,4206-25,4204-21,4205-22,4201-23,4203-25,4213-21,4200-25,4209-21

What makes this build good?
You wont have hate problems with this build. You have the following feats for DPS and/or solo: Blood fever, blood champion, vengeance of the gods, Exemplar, Animalistic Fury, Rune of aggression/grounding/slaughter, Great natural health regeneration from claws of life and improved spirit of the bear, and enough mana from ether discharge and ether flow. Your protection will be the tanks, because you cant sustain the damage in raids, even if you take every invulnerability feat possible.

You can, if you only want to, become the best melee friend there is. Take Nelo, who has only physical damage, and think about him with +32 damage and +18% damage from lowered invulnerabilities. Do you know what insane damage you're going to generate through him? The tanks get a lot of hate for every small amount of damage they generate. Think of them with +32 damage and +18% damage from the lowered invulnerabilities. Melee attackers will be able to fight all day with your balance of nature, and double tap for free to stun and help the tanks survive. All of that just because of you. That's what you can become if you only want to. Can you think of many people who could contribute so much to the raid or the group? Its right there, and all you need is to reach and grab it.

You've been playing a BS for some time already. Getting used to such a template in PvE will be easy for you. You belong to the main tank group with this build. You'll also be a good solo player. What more can you ask for?

Consider this offer, as its just for you.

Lorana wrote:Empowered renewal is one of the worst choices a BS can choose from

Wow, I really just can't take you seriously after this comment. Do you even know that Enpowered Renewal is needed to get Deft Renewal feat? How do you explain ditching +5% evade chance for whole group? And the damage bonus isn't small from enpowered renewal, it's freakin' great.

And Exemplar feat in general tree? Are you kidding me? Play the class before commenting on a decent build.

Karagas wrote:

Lorana wrote:Empowered renewal is one of the worst choices a BS can choose from

Wow, I really just can't take you seriously after this comment. Do you even know that Enpowered Renewal is needed to get Deft Renewal feat? How do you explain ditching +5% evade chance for whole group? And the damage bonus isn't small from enpowered renewal, it's freakin' great.

And Exemplar feat in general tree? Are you kidding me? Play the class before commenting on a decent build.

I play the class, and let me show you what you're talking about: You're saying that its worth taking 8 feat points for 5% evade, which will barely save you when raid mobs hit rate is low. Group buff? Does it matter? Those are the tanks who're supposed to take the damage. If other classes take the damage, that +5% evade will help once per 20 hits. When vistrix wants your assassin, or necromancer, it wont take 20 hits. Its far less than that.

Empowered renewal will either make you time it right, which will only account for 1 combo finisher once in a while, or use it whenever the healing needs to be refreshed. If you time it right, most chances are that you wouldnt be able to refresh the healing on time. Your role is a healer, and most of the DPS wont be coming from you, even from the empowered renewal which is more than the renewal's reuse time because it requires timing. It'll be coming from other people by using your buffs or from their own DPS. But wait, I need to know how to play the class to know all that, right? Perhaps I know what I'm talking about because I have experienced that class?

The difference between my answer and your answer is that I provide an arguement. I provide logical explanations for my claims. Look at your post:

"Wow, I really just can't take you seriously after this comment. Do you even know that Enpowered Renewal is needed to get Deft Renewal feat? How do you explain ditching +5% evade chance for whole group? And the damage bonus isn't small from enpowered renewal, it's freakin' great."

Do you even know what 5% means? Do you know that very few targets are supposed to be hit in raids, and they're the tanks? Do you know that the BS' role is a healer and it would mean his renewal heal wont be up all the time just for that damage? Do you know that even if that damage is nice, its only once in a while because it needs to be timed right and because of the renewel's reuse time? Do you know that BS combos are slow and that's why the timing is problematic? Clarity of Mind for the PoM is also great damage, but the reuse time is 2 minutes so it doesnt count for any serious DPS. When it comes to raids you need DPS. But hey, I cant know all that because I never played a BS or a PoM, right? You never bothered to ask, so let me tell you that I've been playing both.


"And Exemplar feat in general tree? Are you kidding me? Play the class before commenting on a decent build."

You have no idea what I have experience playing with, and your only explanation is "are you kidding me?". Exemplar is one of the best choices on the way to shroud of the gods, which is AoE -50% hate for 1 feat points, but its clear you never knew that. Perhaps you need to learn how to be involved in a mature discussion, because you dont seem to provide arguements. Unless you think saying "you're kidding me?" means you're automatically right, and let me assure you, it doesnt.

One last thing you need to remember: If someone's right, he's right. It's not important if someone was playing or not playing that class. If someone's right, he's right. Providing arguements will make you right. Posting "are you kidding me?", as your only explanation, wont make you right.

Karagas wrote: And please take in consideration that some people know what they are talking about, before posting something that state the other.

That quote must be applied to your posts as well.

Bad day when I posted my "immature" post and I apologize. I will in the other way around try to share my honest thoughts on his build. First of all I don't see it mentioned that the build is mainly for raids, which I took into consideration when you Lorana shared your thoughts on Ragnar's build. In solo/pvp, invulnerability ratings is better for survival than -hate%. Has Ragnar taken this into consideration? Maybe, I don't know but if he has I understand what he is trying to do. In the same time, he then contradict himself since he has not picked Claws of Life, which is almost essential for this kind of playstyle. Claws of Life only need one point invested if one is only in for the small healing buff for raids, since more points only increases +health regen (which is good for solo/pve).
I agree that the invulnerability feats in general is better spent elsewhere since a feated Grizzled Hide and Spirit Walker-feated "Spirit Totem: Stone" already provides good invulnerability ratings (3.5% slashing, piercing and crushing in addition to the 3% grizzled hide provides to all invulnerabilities). Ursine Onlsaught is a waste, agreed. If one wants to delve deeper into Wrath tree it is better to choose buffing Internal Bleed. To the main thing I saw in your build Lorana is the choice to delve so deep into general tree. Does one really need the -hate% feats? As the healers jobs is to heal, isn't it the tanks job to keep aggro? As it is now, the chance of getting aggro seems pretty random. This is just my opinion and observations. Most sources say, opposed to you, that Vindicator-feat REALLY is bugged, tho this can come down to individual experience for some reason. Either way depending on your playstyle, you will lose much by spending too much points in general, but your build Lorana is mainly for raids as I can see and judge, and I respect that.

On the other hand people have different opinions which is the best build for any situations, and your build in my eyes is far from the best, for obvious reasons, again because of what I think is important for the BS class. Either way you have given it a shot and I respect that. No one is right or wrong when it comes to builds (with some exceptions of course), as a good player can be a good healer even with bad feat choices. It all comes down to playstyle in the end.

Additionally why did you not mention that deft renewal applies to the ones who are taking damage, the tanks? If you are in main tank group this means the tanks most certainly takes less damage with increased evade, and isn't that a good thing I wonder? (retorical question indeed.)

Karagas wrote:Additionally why did you not mention that deft renewal applies to the ones who are taking damage, the tanks? If you are in main tank group this means the tanks most certainly takes less damage with increased evade, and isn't that a good thing I wonder? (retorical question indeed.)

5% equals to once per 20 hits. That's barely anything, no matter how you turn it. Additionally, the tanks are usually switching aggro, so not the whole group is taking damage. Retorical question? Here's a retorical question: Do you need 8 feats points just to have a little more DPS and barely any defense at all? (retorical question indeed).

hehehe, always the same!

important: SOME skills u MUST take to get others!

GRIZZLED HIDE gives u MANY extra lifepoints, its a "must have" for me (u need 15 points to reach it)

....why i go for high resistance? 15% res. at all is helpfull!

Lazarusson/Ragnarson wrote:hehehe, always the same!

important: SOME skills u MUST take to get others!

GRIZZLED HIDE gives u MANY extra lifepoints, its a "must have" for me (u need 15 points to reach it)

....why i go for high resistance? 15% res. at all is helpfull!

I was always wondering why do I never have any problems soloing without those things. I was also thinking how much damage I could take when epic mobs attacked me. After dying quite fast, I figured my role isnt tanking and simply used many -hate gems and feats.

Grizzled hide requires 9 feat points to be fully feated. 3 of those points simply damage your enemies when you're hit, and it wont kill any raid mob. The last 3 are used to provide a short lived buff, which I have no problem to solo without and is only meant for solo because you're not supposed to take damage in raids. The long term buff was 3-3.5% if I recall, and not 15% by any chance. The stone claws and stone totem are just 2.5% immunities combined. Just physical damage if I recall, and I can check it out later, but its not much anyway. Claws of Stone soak up to 42 damage, if you're supposed to take 84 points of damage, or more. It can also be 5% of the damage in any case, unless the tooltip is misleading. After using those claws I missed my Claws of Life. The Claws of Life were already feated, so the problem was solved in a matter of seconds.

The 10 feat points in the general tree provide a bonus of +3% immunities to magic and physical damage. Their upgrades provide mana and stamina if you're extremely lucky. 16 feat points that arent even good for solo because they could be spent on other feats.

If you equip at least 9 -hate gems, you could give up on the general tree except the Vindicator and the first feat. I've been using Vindicator lately and it had no problem at all. It wasnt removing any defensive stance when tanks were far or changing immunities.

When you're equipped with so many -hate gems no one will ever want you, and personally I intend to take even 3 more gems. If you do that, you can take some feats from Wrath. Feats like Crushed Bones, Crushed Organs, Untamed Regeneration, Battle Roar, Ursine Roar. Those will make you better both at solo play and group play. Untamed Regeneration must be removed when you're in danger, or you think you're really going to be in danger soon. If you really want to, you can take Skulk instead. You have Blood Fever for solo anyway.

Battle roar lasts 30 seconds with a 60 seconds cooldown. +3% physical damage to the group and a little more hp. 301 more hp. Epic mobs hit very hard and that amount of hp will barely help at all. That amount of hp equals to two normal mobs' hits, or even less. Must have? I'm not sure. I'm not sure at all.

Ursine Roar lasts 10 seconds with a 40 seconds cooldown. -15% to the mobs damage in a cone in front of you. Not the best, but not so bad either. Both feats can be good instead of the general tree when you equip a hefty amount of -hate gems.

The deft renewal is a chance not to get hit. That chance is almost meaningless with epic mobs because they hit slow and hard. It barely means anything at solo play as well, even with normal mobs. It can never count as +5% immunities because its not and it will never be. Here's a nice way to put it, and remember that the quote is also related to raids:

Lorana wrote:5% equals to once per 20 hits. That's barely anything, no matter how you turn it. Additionally, the tanks are usually switching aggro, so not the whole group is taking damage. Retorical question? Here's a retorical question: Do you need 8 feats points just to have a little more DPS and barely any defense at all? (retorical question indeed).

Lazarusson/Ragnarson wrote:hehehe, always the same!

With your permission, I'd like to say the same thing about your posts

This is my build :
Chaaron

Before someone criticize my char: Everyone has unique character , its a miracle of this game . We are no robots , one as an other one . Someone helps close combat fight , someone heals . I dislike statistic . Choose the build that suit you. These builds can help someone create his own char for his/her ideal play style.
(not build related)

Chaaron wrote:This is my build :
Chaaron

Before someone criticize my char: Everyone has unique character , its a miracle of this game . We are no robots , one as an other one . Someone helps close combat fight , someone heals . I dislike statistic . Choose the build that suit you. These builds can help someone create his own char for his/her ideal play style.

(nothing to do about a build)

Helping close combat by executing combos in raids is something that can be well achieved by almost every person in this game. The great difference is made by the options you have. Your build is your options. For example, if you dont have the rune of aggression, you wont be able to provide that superb buff.

There's nothing about being a robot at AoC by choosing a build. No matter how unique you think you are, there are at least a thounsand players, or more, with your build. There'll also be thousands of players with your gear and many more that are bear shamans in general. No matter what you say, you're not unique. You just want to think you are. That said, all that's left is to choose a path.

The priest differs himself from DPS and tanking classes by providing support. No other class can provide similar support. The ToS and the BS differ themselves from the PoM by providing more damage support. The ToS provides more mana support and the BS provides more stamina support. The PoM is the best healer, when using the Lance of Mitra with its healing upgrade coupled with his CC. That said, priests have the potential to help the team, which cant nearly be done in the same manner by other classes. A person can always choose a DPS class if he's interested in doing great damage himself. A person can always choose a BS or a ToS is he's interested in doing great damage by buffing others. Both the BS and the ToS have far greater damage potential as buffers, and have far less potential as DPSers.

Make no mistake, you can take a hefty amount of DPS feats even when you're supporting your team in the best way possible. That's Funcom's brilliant design. Please take a look at the build I posted at the bottom of the post to see what I'm talking about. I refer to DPS that's not being generated by buffing others. I refer to DPS that's coming directly from you.

People, no matter which game they're playing, will always have the choice to help others first or to help themselves first. By choosing support, your team mates will be aware to the fact that you've chosen the path of the helper. By choosing the non supporting path with a support class your team mates will be aware to the fact that you're selfish. Its fun for that person, of course, but where did the others disappear? Wont the vast majority be happy when they're seriously buffed? They'll be very happy. Happier than with a person who's choosing a support class but isnt really supporting. I have yet to see a good person who wants the support class and wont be having fun from supporting others. Good people will always be glad to do everything for the ones they need. I have yet to know why is choosing the path of the supporter, as a priest, so bad.

Must I remind you that No one is forcing that person to take a support class? Must I remind you that some raid encounters require everything you've got? What about Xibaluku, when you have only 6 people, and not much room to make mistakes in some encouters? What will you tell your team then? "Hey, my style is to barely support and try to be a DPSer, even if I cant nearly be as good as the DPSers. If you want support find someone else"? What makes me believe that you're not going to ask a frenzy specced guardian to tank at BRC? I know many people who'll never tell the guardian the truth being the fact that he wont be invited in many cases. It doesnt change the fact that he wont be invited because his personal style collides with the team's goals. Are you suggesting that we are to tell him "Dont take a tanking build, which is more or less the same with almost ever tank, because you need to tell yourself that you're unique"?

Personal preferences can collide with the team's needs. It falls to you to choose a path. The path of the team player or the path of the solo. Guess who's more welcome in most successful teams like Xibaluku teams, BRC teams or PvP teams on a PvP server? I refer to teams that have repeated success in those challenges. Teams, in general, will always appreciate the team player more than the ones who prefer their own fun, even when it collides with the team's goals. There's nothing to discuss here because its a fact.

(There are many facts above, and I wont allow someone's opinions to turn it into my personal opinions just because he thinks so. Its a discussion and if someone wants to turn some facts, that were mentioned above, into personal opinions, he has to prove it by providing an arguement).



With your permission, I'd like to discuss your build now. The Deft Revewal and Empowered Renewal were already discussed.

The Invulnerabilities in the General tree have also been discussed. The Guiding Spirit and All Encompassing Spirit have also been discussed. I never needed Focus in raids or even in Solo, because the cast time of the Blood Flow is 0.5 second and I was barely ever attacked in groups.

The Wild Energy doesnt provide a great amount of mana, and you could get a better amount of mana in many ways. Some of those ways include Ether Discharge for big groups, Unnatural Regeneration in groups and raids which was discussed in my last post, grouping with a ToS that has the Idol of Set, and honestly I never needed more than Ether Discharge and Ether flow, which you seem to have.

You dont have Vindicator, which was never bugged for me lately. The cost is two feat points, and its one of the best hate feats possible.

Spirit Walker barely provides any buff at all. If you're interested in good self healing combined with a nice healing buff you can simply choose the Claws of Life.

Not choosing the Rune of Slaughter for raids is something I can barely explain. It can give a nice boost to your damage as well, and barely requires anything. It was also discussed earlier in this thread.

If you dont remember what was told about those feats, I'll gladly remind you. There's a build to consider, at the bottom of the post, if you're interested:

Lorana wrote:Empowered renewal is one of the worst choices a BS can choose from. It requires the right timing to be used right, or else it goes to waste. As a result, the healing will be inactive some of the time, while you're there as a healer. You're healing less just for a minor DPS addition. It is minor, because this buff has a decent reuse time. When timed right, its not used when the reuse time ends. If you're a healer, you're supposed to heal, right?

Spirit walker takes 3 points, and barely buffs the totems.

Claws of life will also help your friends get an additional small healing for free once you're attacking, and will get you +90 natural healing, if I recall. Its great for group and solo, and is much better than the unfeated claws.

The guiding spirit and the all encompassing spirits are a very wierd choice. On one hand, you can get a lot of healing by attacking and putting the nature's wrath to good use. On the other hand, you invest 3 points to shorten the reuse time from 3.5 sec, which is extremely short, to almost no reuse time. The tanks are the ones who're taking the damage. If its other groups, they have their own healers. There's no reason in the world to spam the blood flow. Stacking nature's wrath will heal the ones who're taking the damage, which actually makes sense.

Wild Energy is useless once you have Ether Discharge. There wont be mana problems when it comes to solo. In extreme cases there might be a need for a potion, but its so cheap, so I guess no one cares.

Rune of Slaughter - What reason did you have to skip one of the best raid/group feats possible? If you're attacking, the rune will easily stack to -10% to the mob's physical invulnerabilities. You actually buff the entire DPS of the whole group. The ones who're using physical damage. That includes the tanks, who could use that help. That, coupled with your rune of aggression, will make your damage so good, but you wont get the credit for it when it comes to DPS charts. On the other hands, your real damage will be great. It might be through others, but some people only care about their personal glory. I wasnt refering to you.

If you want great soloing ability, while still having as much group support as possible, you can consider this build:
http://aoc.yg.com/feat-planner?class=29&tpl=2431-05,2422-05,2400-15,2403-15,2407-15,2409-15,2412-15,2446-15,2435-15,2416-15,2419-13,2447-11,2413-11,2415-11,4206-25,4204-21,4205-22,4201-23,4203-25,4213-21,4200-25,4209-21

What makes this build good?
You wont have hate problems with this build. You have the following feats for DPS and/or solo: Blood fever, blood champion, vengeance of the gods, Exemplar, Animalistic Fury, Rune of aggression/grounding/slaughter, Great natural health regeneration from claws of life and improved spirit of the bear, and enough mana from ether discharge and ether flow. Your protection will be the tanks, because you cant sustain the damage in raids, even if you take every invulnerability feat possible.

Please keep the dicussion constructive. I feel this is becoming a slanging match which is not what we want.

I have been reading the above with interest and can only assume that Lorana is allowing the owner or Borachas / Doras access to our forum through her membership. I would ask that this stop or further action will have to be taken.

Each build is personal and I dont have a problem with ppl discussing builds but each build IS individual and when someone constantly and I mean constantly critisezes anybodies build other than their own then they are not being constructive or helpful. and I do not want to have to read that ppl are constantly having to defend themselves and their friends from a barrage of crtisism. and any further post of this type will be edited and may be axed

Lorana's Wall of Text crits you for: 10758 damage.